tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5394310461939093453.post4953605396325790610..comments2024-03-25T21:16:18.716+13:00Comments on The Tearoom of Despair: Living in SpoilageBob Temukahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09181473725170489213noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5394310461939093453.post-73379254880663894442009-04-03T10:07:00.000+13:002009-04-03T10:07:00.000+13:00I should probably point out that I will be doing m...I should probably point out that I will be doing my very best to avoid spoiling anything without warning on this blog, unless it's more than a decade old. Then I figure it's fair game. (Plus, if I title a post something like "End of the Week", spoilers are implicit.)<BR/><BR/>Good points, all. I'm able to avoid spoilers on Lost because we're only a month or so behind America, (it was "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" this week) and that is just long enough to avoid spoilers. I totally agree with Zom that surprise is an intrinsic part of Lost's appeal and I manage to avoid 90% of all spoilers in that month. But if it was any longer, I would know a lot more and would probably resort to downloading it. But I'm not too broken up over that 10% I do know, that's not a bad ratio in the bigger picture.<BR/><BR/>And Patrick is also right about The Wire. The thrill of watching that first season and not knowing anything at all, even about who the main characters actually were, still sticks with me. That glorious confusion was lost the secind time I watched it, but I was able to get more from the story by knowing what was actually ahappening, instead of worrying about who was who.<BR/><BR/>(It's kinda like the cheap thrill you can get from watching something like the Battlestar Galactica mini-series and noting all the crazy shit that is going to happen to those characters over the next five years.)<BR/><BR/>And Matthew sounds just as confused about the balance as I feel, so it's lovely to know I'm not alone.<BR/><BR/>I guess my ultimate (and slightly lame) point is that it's good to avoid spoilers as much as possible, but it's not the end of the world if it happens.Bob Temukahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09181473725170489213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5394310461939093453.post-32992957359261797192009-04-02T23:47:00.000+13:002009-04-02T23:47:00.000+13:00This hoary old one, eh?A few years ago Bobsy, anot...This hoary old one, eh?<BR/><BR/>A few years ago Bobsy, another friend , and I were arguing about this very thing down the pub. Bobsy’s argument ran like a more extreme version of the one you’ve put forward here – that moaning about spoiled plot details neglects the fact that stories are so much more than a bunch of beats, and that consequently we shouldn’t get too hung up about spoilers (his point was that we shouldn’t get hung up about spoilers *ever*). I maintained then, and I still maintain now, that while I agree entirely that stories are a lot more than their constituent plot elements, surprise, suspense, anticipation, and speculation are a big part of what many of us want when we *first* come to a text, and these these things, while not (always) entirely predicated on remaining unspoiled, are nevertheless deeply entangled with plot. I argued that Bobsy’s arguments, while containing real nuggets of wisdom, served the psychological purpose of legitimising and rationalising the fact that he habitually took certain ways of enjoying the text off the table or lessened their force. I wasn’t attempting amateur psychology, simply engaging with the fact that when we first learn to enjoy stories surprise is a big part of the package. It’s intimately bound up with our earliest experiences of storytelling. <BR/><BR/>I’m not trying to suggest that we must never spoil ourselves, just trying to point out that spoiling isn’t a trivial thing.<BR/><BR/>As for the revelation of relatively trivial plot details, judging whether it’s problematic or not depends on what kind of story you’re talking about, where you’re doing the revealing, and who your audience is. With Lost I don’t want to know anything at all as surprise is an incredibly important part of the show’s appeal – it’s what it’s about, in many ways, so I think people should think twice before they casually spoil it in conversation, but it seems to me that a proper review of any given episode is totally entitled to contain spoilers. Consequently, if people wish to remain unspoiled it is incumbent on them to think about the kinds of things they should probably shy away from, as much as it’s incumbent on others to be thoughtful about when and how they reveal spoilery details.Zomhttp://mindlessones.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5394310461939093453.post-29138073690534047992009-04-02T17:10:00.000+13:002009-04-02T17:10:00.000+13:00I'm definitely with you, Bob. At one point, i...I'm definitely with you, Bob. At one point, it seemed like spoilers were a big deal, but I eventually realized that it's about the journey, not the destination. In fact, that applies to the stories themselves too; I know people who have felt that a movie was good, but just couldn't get past the last scene (Fight Club would be one example). But yeah, that's something that I feel; if a work can be "ruined" by the revelation of a few plot details, it probably wasn't worth too much in the first place. Of course, there are exceptions, in that a story might be built in such a way that it's all predicated on a certain revelation, and revealing that plot point prematurely would "ruin" the experience, but even something like that can feel like a shallow experience when a climactic revelation is all there is to it. So, um, yeah, journey > destination, for the most part. I'll shut up now.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13867868039166531163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5394310461939093453.post-69084571563478915682009-04-02T17:00:00.000+13:002009-04-02T17:00:00.000+13:00I agree with the general point, certainly most mov...I agree with the general point, certainly most movies or TV shows you watch, you've got a decent idea of where it's all going to end up, and something like 24 that's all about shocking the audience reaches the point where you're expecting the shock so it ceases to be shocking.<BR/><BR/>But, I do still think it's not a good idea to go into stuff spoiled. To consider The Wire example, it still may be great watching it even if you know what's going to happen, but you can watch it with that knowledge many times after the first viewing, but you can only have the experience of watching it and not knowing what's going to happen once, and surely it's worth holding out on spoilers to have that one fresh watch.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483689490186954593noreply@blogger.com